Cattle and Elk

[Brokeleg]

I am relativly new to elk hunting and I noticed something last year when we went elk hunting. There were a lot more beef cattle in our area and we saw a lot less elk than we did the year before. I am wondering if the cattle and elk get along or if the elk don't want to be the cattle?
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"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

[GetemDuck]

I'm the wrong guy to ask but I can say I have seen youtube videos with cattle and elk less the 10 yards apart.
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Get'em Duck

[cnelk]

In 2005 I shot a bull [the one in my avatar] when there were cattle just a little ways a way.

There were 3 bulls bugling that morning and this one decided to 'play'

I voted for the middle choice
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Camp "Wack-a-Moose" 2009

[nocohuntr]

Last weekend, I saw about 20 elk cows/calves feeding on a grassy slope, 200 yards above cattle feeding in a willow creek bottom. My personal observation is that they'll hang in the same general vicinity, but i think it all depends on the area and the elk. If the elk are in an area heavily used by livestock, and intermixed with public and private ground grazing, they'll get used to it and stick around. If grazing pushes into more remote reaches, the elk might shy away (espeially if there is some human/horse/cattle dog presence along with the cattle). I have heard that grazing can be benefit to elk hunting, if the timing of the grazing is right, the cattle are moved to another section, and the grass has some time to regrow. Much like a forest fire, the new grass growth can be attractive to elk. I've heard there is a way to check with USFS and BLM as to grazing schedules, so one might be able to take advantage of a situation like this, but have never looked into it. Anyone know of a link or how to find out that information?

[herb]

We've hunted with cattle a lot over the years. Watched bulls bedded and bugling in a basin with cattle grazing around them in all directions. Much of the grazing on forest lands has been in practice for most of the last century, the elk have all grown up with exposure to cattle. The greatest impact is the first days a herd of cattle gets rotated into an area. The elk have to adjust to all the extra activity and competion for food and water. Some elk move out, some move to areas less frequented by the cattle, some just go about in their normal routine.

Contact the Forest Service Ranger District specific to the area you hunt, they should have the details on the grazing allotments.
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"Those who claim that hunting is no longer "necessary" put too much faith in civilization, in "others" doing what they should. "

[cnelk]

Sometimes the Forest Service has the ranchers rotate the grazing year to year so plants have a recovery time.
One year the cattle are in a certain drainage first and the next year they start where they ended up the year prior.

I've found the elk like to move in behind the grazing as the regrowth grass comes back - typically 7-10 days.
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Camp "Wack-a-Moose" 2009

[cnelk]

Sometimes the Forest Service has the ranchers rotate the grazing year to year so plants have a recovery time.
One year the cattle are in a certain drainage first and the next year they start where they ended up the year prior.

I've found the elk like to move in behind the grazing as the regrowth grass comes back - typically 7-10 days.
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Camp "Wack-a-Moose" 2009

[Brokeleg]

A survey that was done on the effects of cattle to elk and mule deer
I found while doing a few searches to kind of back up what I saw. Here is the web site with the whole survey. http://uvalde.tamu.edu/jrm/remote/auesursf.htm


"Understanding the ecological and nutritional consequences of the stocking densities of wild and domestic ungulates on landscapes is vital for proper management and our results show a high degree of interaction between elk and cattle at Starkey. Elk distributions changed in response to cattle grazing but clear patterns of response of mule deer to cattle were not evident. Instead, we observed mule deer changes in distribution to be correlated with changes in elk distribution.Cattle, therefore, cause changes in distributions of both elk and mule deer. We recommend that managers look closely at stocking levels in late summer because elk and cattle select for some of the same resources during that period, and effects on both animal and plant productivity could be detrimental depending on stocking levels. Particular attention should be paid to the ponderosa pine/Douglas fir plant communities where we found significant cattle and elk interactions. Resource selection functions can be used to predict distributions of sympatric populations of cattle, elk, and mule deer (Johnson et al. 2000) and these predicted distributions can be incorporated into a forage allocation model for resource managers (Johnson et al. 1996). While developing coordinated management plans for forage allocation is complicated by social values, understanding the interactions of cattle, elk, and mule deer will help managers make decisions involving these three species."
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"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

[cnelk]

Nice survey

I'll stick with what I've learned where I've hunted the past 20+ years
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Camp "Wack-a-Moose" 2009

[herb]

The land managers in the area we hunt do a nice job or rotating the pastures areas from year to year. I've got the last 8 years of pasture rotations and have tried to monitor how elk patterns we experienced varied each year. One thing is very consistent, 80% of our elk kills are within a mile of each other, regardless of the grazing schedule. I'd worry more about the hunting pressure than the cattle.
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"Those who claim that hunting is no longer "necessary" put too much faith in civilization, in "others" doing what they should. "

[rooster52]

I have seen elk and cattle in the same area several times.The thing I think moves elk out is the wranglers riding thru elk areas before season onpeners.They say they are looking for strays ,but my thoughts are they are trying to push elk onto there private ranch's from the forest,for there paying customers.
I used to hunt the rim of Bunker Basin in unit 231 untill this started happening just before the hunting season.I did not see any elk the last two trips there,I wonder if this is do to the horse and cowboys or what,when we used to all see elk.
Just the same i found a couple other places to hunt for my next trip.

[herb]

Here's an part from my detail of our 2009 elk hunt:

"For the next two hours, I'm able to stay in the 80 to 100 yard range of many bulls and cows. Finally it's just me, the herd bull and 12 cows. He's tending his cows and circles the herd about every 15 minutes. He knows there should be a bull over where I'm at and each circle he comes 10 yards closer. Next I hear voices, cowboys pushing cows, they ride 300 yards below us. The elk all stopped, ears alert and didn't make a sound until the cowboys rode out of ear shot. Once they were gone, the bull went back to tending his cows as they browsed. "

I also sat on a ridge and watched cowboys pushing some stragglers out of a basin, while elk were grazing in cuts higher up in the same basin. Those cowboys can ride too!!

We have the main forest service trails, then a seperate set of unmarked cowboy trails. We use the trail systems to cover ground, those cowboys know the easiest ways around that country. Most of our elk encounters are in the many pockets void of these trails. With most of the cowboys, cattle and hunters using the trails, seems pretty logical that the elk have just moved off to the side a bit and avoid the extra activity.

All that said, I'd prefer to not have the cattle and cowboys there, but I'm not going to look for another area because of their shared use. The hunting is just pretty darn good.
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"Those who claim that hunting is no longer "necessary" put too much faith in civilization, in "others" doing what they should. "

[cnelk]

Herb -
I notice the same thing - in fact my ranching buddy who rides the timber pushing cows comes by my camp and tells me where he is seeing current elk or elk sign.

And then I tell him where I am seeing his cattle - sweet trade!

Last year we saved one of his bulls that had hoof rot. I told him where he was hiding out at and he rode in there, roped him, gave him a shot of anti-biotics and sent him on his way!

So he is more than glad to tell me where the elk are at!
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Camp "Wack-a-Moose" 2009

[herb]

My selfish advice would be, "NEVER HUNT WHERE CATTLE GRAZE!!!", unless you are herb or cnelk.
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"Those who claim that hunting is no longer "necessary" put too much faith in civilization, in "others" doing what they should. "

[Brokeleg]

Thank you for the replies and votes. I am going to try and get a cattle rotation schedule and get behind the cattle in our area and I am going to not let the cattle scare me off. As was mentioned earlier the hunting pressure also changed last year. Saw more hunters than ever before. 22 days till we leave for High Country.
_________________
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16